Fibonacci Reminder (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
fibonacci_reminder) wrote2018-12-23 02:40 pm
fibonacci_reminder) wrote2018-12-23 02:40 pm
Entry tags:
Hollow/Dark Chatlog
Here's a longer chatlog regarding another setting of mine, inspired by superheroes, spy thrillers, and conspiracy theories. As before, users other than myself have been anonymized to User followed by a number, in order of their appearance.
[2:44 AM] Fib: This is my superheroes setting
[2:53 AM] Fib: In the late 50s, the CIA discovered that drugging people into the correct mental state can cause them to gain superhuman powers, albeit at the cost of a great loss of agency and personal identity. The powers gain were always 'external' in a sense, taking the forms like, throwing rays of fire, or creating force-field blades, or projecting holograms.
[2:58 AM] Fib: Unbenknownst to the CIA, and the world at large, this process also creates a shadowy duplicate of the enhanced individual, which possesses all of the psychological traits which the process strips from the original, like their selfishness, their self-image, their ambitions, etc. This duplicate also possesses its own powers, such as greatly enhanced strength, agility, endurance, durability, senses, and other holistic ability improvements, as well as 'internal' abilities such as shapeshifting, growth, flight, selective intangibility, etc.
[3:09 AM] Fib: Operatives processed in this way (called Psychic Enhancement Operatives, or PEOs) were deployed as part of the advisory forces in Vietnam, the Invasion of the Bay of Pigs (which proves successful in this timeline), as well as to various armed revolutionary groups in Africa and South America.
[3:13 AM] Fib: The technology is fairly quickly stolen, reverse engineered, or possibly simply discovered in parallel by Lab 12, causing the majority of proxy wars during this period to enter stalemate.
[3:15 AM] Fib: However, due to an expansion in the processing apparatus in the Soviet Union in the mid 60s, the tide of most fronts turns against the US.
[3:32 AM] Fib: After a war between Israel and Egypt with some parallels to the Six-Day War IOTL, likewise resulting in an Israeli victory but taking somewhat longer, the Israeli intelligence community learns from experiments on a number of unexplained shadowy humanoids (duplicates generated by the enhancement process which had ended up in their territory for one reason or another) how to induce a second state of enhancement in humans. This produces powers of a similar class as those found in the shadowy duplicates, and produces psychological damage which mirrors that produced by the first method, causing significant loses in empathy, obedience, etc.
[3:40 AM] Fib: Again, unbeknownst to researchers, since enhancement process creates its own form of byproduct, intangible, identity-less minds drift through the air, influenced by the thoughts of nearby humanoids and capable of producing effects analogous to those of PEOs.
[3:41 AM] Fib: This technology is then disseminated to the US intelligence community, and in turn eventually proliferates in general.
[3:42 AM] Fib: Subjects of this second process are much less useful as soliders, howevers, given the process naturally destroys characteristics which encourage loyalty and consistent performance in the field.
[3:44 AM] Fib: That's as far as I've gotten with this.
[3:53 AM] Fib: I think I've actually talked with you a little bit about this one before, @User1, though I'm not totally sure.
[3:54 AM] User1: You have a little bit, @Fib, but mostly in very broad terms until now.
[3:56 AM] Fib: nods
[4:02 AM] User1: Sounds even more interesting than before~
@Fib it occurs to us that the floating mind PEOs could constitute the dynamic (as in dunamis/dunamos, Greek "power") for a sort of spirit/demon/ancestor/angel/daemon (as in computing) magic./magical science/surreal science. Thoughts?
[4:02 AM] Fib: nods
[4:15 AM] Fib: Oh, sorry, thought I'd posted
[4:21 AM] Fib: Assuming that type-2 enhancement procedures continue apace, there'll be enough husks (my OOC terms for the byproduct of type-2 enhancement) just floating around in the atmosphere for mental techniques to grab their attention and direct them to start being regularly achievable, though it'll take a long while even then before the available effects at any given location and time start converging in practice.
[4:24 AM] Fib: People who cotton on, especially people with sufficient force of personality, including many shadows (type-1 byproducts), can more permanently capture husks, though.(edited)
[4:39 AM] Fib: (Also, I don't know if this world is of any interest to you, User2?)
[4:44 AM] User2: YES it is
[4:45 AM] User2: this is relevant to my interests
[4:45 AM] User2: I have a character who just went "yup I exist here now"
[4:45 AM] Fib: Ooh
[4:45 AM] User2: and promptly became 2 characters because of the enhancement thing
[4:45 AM] Fib: I am interested in hearing about these characters
[4:46 AM] User2: OK, so...I think it would be a type-1 enhancement
[4:46 AM] User2: because that's the type that actually gets you 2 people instead of a person and a floating force of nature
[4:46 AM] Fib: nods
[4:48 AM] User2: I have no idea what powers the original PEO would get but their shadow would get...maybe shapeshifting? maybe telepathy, I'm not sure what category telepathy comes under
[4:48 AM] User2: but I'd expect it to be classed as "internal"
[4:48 AM] Fib: It kind of depends on what you mean by telepathy.
[4:49 AM] Fib: Mind-reading would internal, mind-control/mesmerism would be external.
[4:51 AM] Fib: Also, the mind-reading would be more like, seeing their surface thoughts/what's on their mind, feeling their emotions, perceiving their senses, rather than being able to dive into their memories or such.(edited)
[4:52 AM] Fib: I don't know if that changes this character much?
[4:55 AM] User2: No, that's exactly the sort of telepathy he wants.
[4:55 AM] Fib: :thumbsup:
[4:56 AM] User2: Still not sure what to do for the other one, although I guess if we're ripping his personality out by the seams it doesn't actually have to be something the character would choose...
[4:56 AM] User2: my gut says something fire-based?
[4:58 AM] Fib: nods
[4:59 AM] Fib: Fire, or at least, intense heat is one of the most common vectors of type-1 enhancement.
[5:01 AM] Fib: Any particular form of projection standing out to you?
[5:07 AM] User2: hmmmm
[5:07 AM] User2: not sure yet
[5:08 AM] Fib: Some random ideas: fire-breathing, weapons made out of fire, a cloak or emantion of heat, throwable exploding fireballs, creating walls of fire, creating controllable 'snakes' of fire, a touch that near-instantly increases the touched object's temperature
[5:08 AM] User2: part of the problem is that I don't have a handle on the character yet
[5:08 AM] User2: I know the base character, but not what the type-1 procedure turns him into
[5:08 AM] User2: brb
[5:08 AM] Fib: nods
[5:27 AM] Fib: pokes
[5:29 AM] Fib: @User2 back?
[5:29 AM] User2: sorry, need to do other things for a bit
[5:29 AM] Fib: :thumbsup:
[5:30 AM] Fib: Sorry
[5:30 AM] Fib: Whenever you're free, you're more than welcome to message.
[5:30 AM] Fib: I think I'm going to head to bed.
[5:30 AM] Fib: I want to hear more about this/ese character/s!(edited)
[4:29 PM] Fib: pokes @User2
[4:31 PM] User2: hmm
[4:31 PM] User2: (I got distracted in the middle of typing that "hmm")
[4:32 PM] User2: I'm really not sure what this character turns into if you rip out a large chunk of his personality, possibly because I'm not quite clear on which chunks get ripped out.
[4:32 PM] Fib: Like
[4:33 PM] Fib: The, self-direction parts?
[4:33 PM] User2: hmm, this might be more of an even split than I thought depending on where you're drawing the line
[4:34 PM] Fib: Like
[4:35 PM] Fib: If you took a person who already mostly went with the flow, did what was suggested or what they thought people wanted, then they'd come through with less damage
[4:35 PM] Fib: If you took someone who was head-strong, followed their goals proactively, had a strong self-image, they'd come through with much, much more damage.
[4:37 PM] Fib: I don't know if that helps you figure it?
[4:37 PM] User2: yeah, it does
[4:37 PM] User2: I think this character is a decent proportion externally directed anyway
[4:38 PM] User2: so it would do the very convenient thing of separating out the self-directed parts from the externally-directed parts which is a split I've already done with a different version of the character
[4:38 PM] Fib: :thumbsup:
[4:38 PM] User2: not exactly along those lines but pretty darn close
[4:38 PM] User2: anyway that helps me figure out both their powers
[4:39 PM] User2: ...ok, let's nickname them L (self-directed shadow) and M (externally directed PEO) for convenience
[4:40 PM] User2: M's power is going to be at least somewhat dependent on context and what would be the most useful power for him to have
[4:40 PM] User2: or what other people think/tell him would be most useful
[4:41 PM] Fib: That is unfortunately a little bit beyond the scope that type-1 powers generally fall within?
[4:41 PM] Fib: Type-1 powers generally don't do information gathering, and 'what is most useful' or 'what is most wanted' has implicit information gathering.
[4:42 PM] User2: not really? maybe I'm explaining it wrong
[4:42 PM] User2: I just realised I don't know how much control the person has over what powers they get
[4:42 PM] User2: but what I was imagining is that, before the split, someone M cared about talked to him and told him they wanted X power
[4:43 PM] Fib: Ah.
[4:43 PM] Fib: I mean
[4:43 PM] User2: but now I'm actually saying it I realise that probably doesn't work because they probably don't have that level of control
[4:43 PM] Fib: If you wanted to make it so that it lined up like that, that's your prerogative as the story-writer.
[4:43 PM] Fib: But yeah
[4:43 PM] User2: (and the meta version of the character is now sulking that I can't do that without it looking contrived)(edited)
[4:43 PM] Fib: Enhanciles have virtually zero control over what power they get
[4:43 PM] Fib: IC
[4:44 PM] User2: In that case I have no idea how to decide what power M gets
[4:44 PM] User2: maybe it should be random
[4:44 PM] User2: I bet there's somewhere on the internet you can generate random superpowers from a list and I could do that until I get one that fits the scope of type-1 powers
[4:44 PM] User2: anyway moving on to L
[4:45 PM] User2: (for now)
[4:45 PM] Fib: nods
[4:45 PM] User2: L is more likely to have empathy/telepathy than shapeshifting
[4:45 PM] User2: like we discussed earlier, it's more communicative/passive than mind-controlly
[4:46 PM] Fib: nods
[4:46 PM] Fib: Note also that type-2 based telepathy wouldn't have means of broadcasting. It would be reception only.
[4:47 PM] User2: L: "less useful but I'll take it as long as I have some means of communicating"
[4:48 PM] User2: (if he does not in fact have any way of communicating with people he will be Very Unhappy but is not actually refusing to exist in this state)
[4:48 PM] Fib: I mean.
[4:48 PM] Fib: He can talk?
[4:49 PM] User2: L: "oh good"
(it wasn't clear from your description of shadows/I couldn't remember)
[4:49 PM] Fib: Shadows are fully physical, unlike husks.
[4:50 PM] User2: nod
[4:50 PM] Fib: They're actually pretty much physically identical to the original, except that their insides are pitch black rather than various shades of red.
[4:51 PM] User2: ...cool
[4:51 PM] User2: (L: "not cool not cool AAAA")
[4:51 PM] Fib: Sorry
[4:51 PM] User2: don't worry he's fine, I do worse to him all the time XD
[4:51 PM] Fib: Fair enough.
[4:52 PM] User2: So what's the surrounding setting, is it a normal Earth other than the magic(?) system?
[4:53 PM] User2: What's the present day of the setting? Divergence point in the fifties, but I'm assuming the most interesting timeframe is later than that.
[4:53 PM] Fib: It is identical RL Earth up to the PoD in the late 50s.
[4:53 PM] Fib: And I don't know what the 2018 of the setting is like quite yet
[4:54 PM] Fib: I know that I'm aiming for most PEOs to eventually be released from active service after the cold war comes to a close, which forms the seed of a something like a superhero community
[4:55 PM] Fib: (Given long periods of time, type-1 and -2 enhanciles can partially recover from the psychological damage involved in the enhancement process.)
[4:57 PM] User2: ooo
[4:58 PM] Fib: Ultimately, for the enhanciles, it's only trauma. Severe, life-changing trauma, but trauma nonetheless, and humans are remarkably resilient.
[5:03 PM] Fib: (hugs User2)
[5:11 PM] Fib: Busy @User2?
[5:12 PM] User2: distracted and don't have much else to say at the moment
[5:12 PM] User2: does the healing process affect shadows at all? do they heal too, do they get reabsorbed, do they just carry on?
[5:12 PM] Fib: Shadows just carry on.
[5:13 PM] Fib: Technically speaking they can absorb husks and eventually become a third kind of entity but I haven't figured out the process for that, or what the consequences are.
[5:16 PM] User2: ooo
[5:20 PM] Fib: I'm not sure what to call them, either.
[5:21 PM] Fib: But, I do know that they're not just "It has hollow and dark powers!"
[5:28 PM] Fib: No idea what to change/add though.
[5:36 PM] User3: What is the reasoning for black guts? Does it alter functuon at all?
[5:36 PM] Fib: It's a partial explanation for their holistic ability increases.
[5:36 PM] Fib: They're made out of Stuff rather than conventional flesh.
[6:55 PM] Fib: pokes @User4
[6:56 PM] User4: ?
[6:57 PM] Fib: Just wondering if this setting interests you at all.
[6:59 PM] User4: Hmm. I scrolled up to the top and read a bit and it didn't grab me
[6:59 PM] Fib: Fair enough.
[6:59 PM] Fib: Sorry for the ping
[7:02 PM] User4: No worries
April 18, 2018
[2:43 PM] Fib: hugs @User2
[2:44 PM] User2: is summoned, appears, collects hugs
[2:44 PM] Fib: :hearts:
[2:44 PM] Fib: How're you doing?
[3:00 PM] User2: busy busy busy
[3:01 PM] User2: just built a level 5 paladin in 5e, took me 30-40 minutes
[3:07 PM] User3: Eww pally. Actually, didnt they remove the lawful good only requiremenr?
[3:17 PM] User2: Yup, they did. Alignment is essentially cosmetic in 5e...except where it isn't, as I discovered last year when I dropped a village of sprites on a party and the Evil character had to wait outside because sprites have Detect Alignment.
April 19, 2018
[2:17 AM] Fib: Anybody around who wants to talk about this setting?
April 30, 2018
[1:36 PM] Fib: Anybody else interested in having a character in this world?
May 18, 2018
[2:15 PM] User5: ...hm
[2:15 PM] User5: I have some characters who... could be made to fit this structure in an interesting way
[2:16 PM] User5: steven-joker/sherlock-???
[2:17 PM] User5: have you got anything more on the subject of how shadow/husk combinations work?
[2:18 PM] Fib: Like, how a type-1/2 relates to their shadow/husk, or shadow/husk fusion entities work, or what?
[2:18 PM] User5: fusion entities
[2:18 PM] User5: also the first thing but the fusion entities are the crux
[2:19 PM] User5: because basically like... i have a character who is a fusion of two other characters, one of whom would make a really good shadow and the other i think would make a really good husk although i'm less confident in my read of how husks work
[2:19 PM] User5: really-good-shadow character is basically... made entirely of self-directedness
[2:20 PM] Fib: nods
[2:20 PM] User5: so if you shadowed him, the shadow would have all of the personality
[2:20 PM] User5: and with some metaphysical duct tape and glue, the remnants left in the original body could probably be pulled together into a different character who sometimes shows up as his younger brother(edited)
[2:21 PM] Fib: nods
[2:22 PM] User5: but then i'm less sure of the husk end because i don't understand that part of the setting as well, and i don't know how fusion entities work
[2:22 PM] Fib: Right.
[2:22 PM] Fib: So, I guess a thing about husks is that, they are less of a complete character, sort of, than a shadow.
[2:23 PM] Fib: You might be able to imagine someone as having goals, and having fetters that limit their pursuit of their goals.
[2:23 PM] Fib: (Some goals are fetters, and it's obviously not a perfect way of classifying things, but eh)
[2:23 PM] Fib: So, a shadow is basically all goal.
[2:23 PM] Fib: And a husk is basically all fetter.(edited)
[2:23 PM] User5: ...huh
[2:24 PM] User5: - oh hey: what happens if you do both procedures to a single person? is it possible?
[2:24 PM] Fib: It is, you can even technically apply the same procedure multiple times.
[2:25 PM] User5: oooooh.
[2:25 PM] Fib: It's even technically survivable.
[2:25 PM] User5: heh
[2:25 PM] Fib: Each additional procedure doesn't precisely 'stack', but they do influence each other.
[2:25 PM] Fib: And, the first time is always the most impactful.
[2:26 PM] Fib: So, a type-12 is going to have more fetters and less direction than a type-21, and the former would have powers that have more externalized aspects than the latter.
[2:27 PM] User5: cool.
[2:27 PM] Fib: I'm being called away, but I'll get to fusion entities in just a bit.
[2:27 PM] User5: I think the way to do the joker/steven thing (shadowperson and his little brother) is to have somebody do the shadow thing to a joker as a very small child
[2:28 PM] User5: like, 4-8, somewhere in there
[2:28 PM] Fib: nods
[2:28 PM] User5: which is exactly the sort of thing his dad would do, so that checks out
[2:51 PM] Fib: Alright, I'm back.
[2:52 PM] Fib: It seems like, it'd be difficult for someone, even a reasonably high ranking intelligence officer, to recquisition the materials for performing a PE procedure privately, but I suppose it wouldn't be strictly impossible.
[2:52 PM] Fib: So, yeah, fusions.
[2:53 PM] User5: (joker's dad's thing is being rich and authoritarian and powerful)
[2:53 PM] Fib: nods(edited)
[2:53 PM] Fib: Basically, shadows retain a fundamental ability to consume and grow, since it's characteristic of the sort of metaphysical substance they're made of.
[2:54 PM] User5: ooh
[2:54 PM] Fib: Generally, this is used to simulate a digestive system, which is good since otherwise they would just sort of run down and become sessile.
[2:54 PM] User5: haha
[2:55 PM] Fib: (Note: you can probably find the occasional buried, paralyzed shadow if you go digging in the right places in the middle east, in the present day of this setting.)
[2:55 PM] User5: oooooh
[2:55 PM] Fib: However, this ability, when used to basically, 'breath-in' a husk, causes a sort of reaction to occur, where the shadow processes the husk, creating a compound material.
[2:56 PM] User5: cool!
[2:56 PM] User5: (...I've got a different template who's interested in the role of 'buried paralyzed shadow'... XD)
[2:56 PM] Fib: This doesn't immediately change anything about the shadow, except giving them a sort of stony organ on their inside.
[2:56 PM] User5: ooh
[2:57 PM] Fib: However, once they've collected a enough compound, they sort of enter a hibernation, where they shrink into a stone cocoon, and eventually emerge as a fused being.
[2:57 PM] Fib: These are the only things in the setting that get straight combo-powers.
[2:57 PM] Fib: Their psychology is also kind of, fey-like.
[2:57 PM] Fib: In the sense that, they do what they want, but they have rules they strictly don't break.
[2:58 PM] User5: ...huh
[2:58 PM] User5: how so?
[2:58 PM] Fib: I mean, the particular rules?
[2:58 PM] Fib: They'll very entity to entity.
[2:59 PM] Fib: They're based entirely on what sort of fetters and chains they consumed from the husks, which in turn depends on what sort of person underwent the type-2 procedure that produced that husk.(edited)
[2:59 PM] User5: hm
[2:59 PM] Fib: Adult fusion entities are rare even in the present day of the setting.
[3:00 PM] Fib: It takes a variable amount of time for the shadow and the husks they've consumed to sort of 'come to an agreement' about what sort of being they're all willing to collectively become, depending on how opposed the shadow's goals are to the husk's fetters.
[3:01 PM] Fib: Like, to take an extreme example, if a shadow who wanted to kill someone ate some husks who amounted to wanting to never kill anybody, it'd take years for them to come to some compromise, if they ever did.
[3:01 PM] User5: heh
[3:01 PM] User5: hmm.
[3:04 PM] Fib: What're you thinking about?
[3:04 PM] User5: trying to figure out if I can get a jokersherlock out of this
[3:05 PM] User5: it's so so so close but I think husks don't quite work in the way they'd need to in order to make the thing happen
[3:05 PM] User5: especially if a shadow needs to absorb multiple husks in order to become a fusion entity
[3:06 PM] User5: but also a shadowjoker probably would just... not assent to becoming the sort of thing that has unbreakable rules
[3:06 PM] Fib: nods
[3:07 PM] User5: the joker-steven thing still totally works though
[3:07 PM] Fib: Multiple husks aren't strictly necessary, it mostly just shakes out that, most people don't have as much husk-stuff as they have shadow-stuff.
[3:07 PM] Fib: nods
[3:07 PM] Fib: And thus your average husk is 'less' than your average 'shadow'
[3:07 PM] User5: aha
[3:08 PM] User5: so if i could somehow contrive for a husk to be floating around that had an entire sherlock in it... mm
[3:08 PM] User5: but i don't think that works
[3:08 PM] User5: especially with the unbreakable rules thing
[3:10 PM] Fib: Also fair.
[3:12 PM] Fib: I guess, you could go with a recalcitrant shadow that technically has enough compound to metamorphose but resists because they don't like the idea.
[3:12 PM] User5: heh
[3:12 PM] User5: in that case would they have any personality-component from the absorbed husk/s though?
[3:12 PM] User5: this is a really cool setting though, i like it
[3:14 PM] Fib: Not exactly, but they can sort of 'communicate' with the husk, in a way which is not always intentional and which is sometimes visible on the outside.
[3:15 PM] User5: huh.
[3:15 PM] Fib: :thumbsup:
[3:15 PM] Fib: Also, it's curious.
[3:16 PM] Fib: User2 seemed moderately attracted to this setting too, or at least, also happened to have a character they thought wanted to be a part of it
[3:16 PM] Fib: @User2 how has that thought gone since before, by the way?
[3:16 PM] User2: uh, ask me when I don't have an exam next week
[3:17 PM] User2: so, end of the month
[3:18 PM] Fib: :thumbsup:
[3:18 PM] Fib: Sorry for the trouble.
[3:24 PM] Fib: @User5 any further interest or do you need some time to process and do some figuring?
[3:31 PM] User5: I gotta go afk a while actually
[3:31 PM] User5: back in an hour or so maybe, not sure
[3:32 PM] Fib: Alright. I hope whatever you’re off to goes well!
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I think this setting is a little more narrow than a lot of the settings I work with? I like settings which are big sprawling messes of wonder and miscellany, and I think if I came up with an idea like this one, I'd probably end up trying to fold it into another one? Not sure that's actually a good/virtuous position.
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